Re: Satellite Tagging

so sorry but forgot to add young Ospreys have a difficult life and these horrific harnesses and batteries are not meant to be on a birds back and no way does it help.

If you see the "Big Fight" at Dyfi? On You-Tube. I do not know how cruel people that do this can sleep and to me this it cruelty big time.

I must be the only oppinion here and barbaric it is.

So wrong and no evidence to help the birds. Please I want,

As anyone got the guts to say this is totally wrong or right

shocking to me these birds were not meant to carry these horrific harnesses and trackers and want a reason for scientific evidence. ~What have we learnt except where they winter and perish.

I do worry it is not about the birds but commercial or fun reasons but not sure how much people care. I hope for the interest of Ospreys

edited for wrong or right.

no answers and I do see both sides but a lie as do disagree with tagging.

I have heard  SNH  are going to re-locate birds to Spain and not sure for definate and maybe "pie in the sky. I do not want to believe the rumours. I hope it is not right and will look at their website. I do not believe this

I have not started yet and learnt a lot.

Tagging is barbaric and un-necessary.

I do understand people agree but I never will and so sorry :)

The SNH do not translocate the birds but provide special licence to allow authorities such as the Highland Foundation for Wildlife to translocate birds from Scotland to where ever.

Translocation to Spain from Scotland has already taken place in recent years under the licence of SNH so it is not a Rumour or Pie in the Sky.

During transportation from Scotland the birds passed through the care of Tim at Rutland Water.

This translocation is well documented and is no secret.

Trust this clears any rumours or Pie in the Skies.

Bright & Breezy

the 'cruel' people who put the tags on (or arrange for them - I think only Roy Dennis is actually licenced to fit them) are the same people who watch over the nests in all weathers and care deeply about the birds. The Dyfi team went out in an extreme storm to feed young Ceulan who would certainly have died without their help.  I haven't seen the Big Fight video but all 3 young birds from the Dyfi nest last year reached Africa OK and 2 are still going strong.

There is certainly an discussion to be had about the risks and benefits of tagging but it really isn't fair to accuse those who do most for the ospreys of cruelty.

B&B I resepect your views, but there are some points about tagging which I would like your and other people's thoughts on.

The tags have provided useful data about where juvenile ospreys are most likely to die after fledging, which seems to be in wintering locations in Africa. There are exceptions (e.g.Deshar and there are others) but the majority have stopped transmitting from a wintering location. Thus increasing the number of young ospreys who return (and therefore grow the UK population -  which is what I think we all want) is most likely to be possible if there is anything which can be done to reduce the risks they face in their wintering locations. Hence the activities of the team from Rutland, Roy Dennis et al travelling in Africawill hopefully help.

The fact that majority of the tagged birds who have died did so after a time staying very local to one location on migration makes me think it is unlikely that the tags are relevant to their demise, but I can't be sure. Like many others I would like to understand why the juvenile return rate for the birds fledged from Rutland seems to be better than many Scottish nests, but the evidence available does not suggest to me that tags are a root cause of this.

Where my doubt about tagging comes from relates to cost and benefit in the current state of knowledge. A tag plus one year's worth of data transmission is about £4000. I don't know how many birds will be tagged this year by various organisations - perhaps 7 at least (2 at LG, Roy Dennis is planning 4 (some of which may not be juveniles), plus Ceulan at Dyfi I expect). Is this the best way of spending something close to £30,000 or is there anything which could be done with that money which would make it more likely that a greater proportion of the juvenile ospreys who will fledge in the difficult summer of 2012 will return to UK in 2014, and subsequent years, to add to the breeding population.  I don't know and would appreciate views.

Thank you for all of your comments and I do understand different sides and being honest, I was against but followed last year and yes as soon as Bynack was in trouble, my level head went, however it did bring me back to where I started from. I tried so hard I did.

AG answer to your question yes a danger zone has been identified but will it help Ospreys?

For now I think not.

Maybe Tim and Rutland should visit that area on their next visit. so always honest.

I know people are going to say, yes a danger zone identified but if an when something will be done then, I will be on-board. Ok Frederic did go an look for Leri.

I need to see and read results not to justify tracking not only for "Pleasure and Commercial" reasons.

I think it will not help but the day something positive comes out of tracking I will be jumping up and down and saying brilliant. RW are at least trying very hard.

For me the money it costs does not justify the results.

So many nests in dis-repair this year and to me failed nests and money would be more justified there.

Most important to me, these birds have it difficult enough without putting foreign objects on their bodies.

Thank you very much for you reply.

B&B,

These were the questions that Rutland hoped would be answered when they started satelite tracking in 1999. Thanks to this tracking much of this now is common knowledge:

What did we hope to learn from satellite tracking?

We hoped it would provide answers to some of the following questions.

What routes are used during the autumn migration?

How long does Osprey migration take?

Are there particular stopping-off sites used during migration?

Where do the birds spend the winter?

How much wandering takes place during the winter?

What return routes are used by adults during the spring migration?

Where do first-year birds spend the second summer of their life?

How do sub-adults join the breeding population?

Do family groups stay together during migration and the wintering periods?

If birds die, where and under what circumstances does it occur?

Vespa I am in total agreement and we know how Joe died and so sad but still un-answered questions about Bynack, Tore, Rothes and Leri and others. AW is concerning.

To me the cost of the information to see and end to their lives, surely we would be better off not knowing.

At the moment the size and cost to me does not justify.

I should re-phrase as I did try so hard to be on-board and I was enjoying following but it is the harnesses and size of the batteries that worry me. Not good results also.

Ospreys perish and have a hard life but what more can we learn.

Surely something smaller could be invented.

You can track Dung Beetles but they are so tiny the battery does not last and I think that is the problem. To get charged up they are large but surely something smaller could be used.

You can satelite tag a car with a tiny chip and hopefully some-one will say why this can be done. It must be the battery in th car that charges it up and not sure :) I do not have sat tagging on my car.

I would be happy if a much smaller battery as to me these are too intrusive and birds should never be sewn into a harness with these horrendous back packs.

I am against tracking for now until good evidence seen to help the birds as it will be interesting to see anything different except where birds are, or they come to grief.

I do not want LG to tag but they will do but I will say, I do believe that one or both will make it back in 2yrs and oh what a circus :)

Thank you as always Vespa

Tracking devices were attached to 2 Rutland birds last year to deter gunmen. This year a tracking device has been attached to a peregrine for the same reason. Story here

Whatever risk satellite tags pose to ospreys and other birds it is very small compared to the other dangers they face.

It will be interesting to see what the statistics are for 2012 but I would not mind wagering that it will be a very bad year indeed for ospreys.

It seems to me that weather is by far the biggest threat to ospreys as indeed it is to most birds.

And, sadly a lot of other animals Had a worrying appeal from The Bat Conservation group yesterday  about poor breeding this year and many bats being found "grounded" from weakness through lack of food because of fewer flying insects

SO SORRY I though I was on a different thread

Latest news. Looks like LOTL and Bassenthwaite chicks may be tagged. Latest from Roy Dennis:

"1st July - all the birds updated - remains a very wet summer - we've been busy ringing and satellite tagging - still a lot to do. Off to Loch of the Lowes and Lake Bassenthwaite next ."

Hi,

Just a query, I noticed just like B&B that the chicks keep chewing their satellite tags is it possible for their beaks to damage them? also they seem bigger than last year??( the tags)

Thanks Alan. I thought it would have to be this week if the Bass chick was going to be tagged this year. Rather wet and windy at the moment in S Lakes though, but could be better over there.